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Have you toured Europe a lot in the past?
"Just two three-week trips to England. In September and October we came to support some singles and the record,
and that was it. We did the UK, Scotland, then went home. That's pretty good though. Most bands don't even go over,
and we went over for two three-weekers. It's a small country, and you do provincial dates in Nottingham - places like
that, which are not fun. I just fucking, fucking hate that. We did the bigger ones as well though. We did Leeds,
Sheffield, Nottingham. Last year was funny - We played London more than we played in San Francisco."
Is there a big difference in your audiences over here as opposed to back in the States?
"Definitely. I guess it's just who we are in the indie scene. Indie audiences in general all run pretty cool,
because you're not supposed to be too emotive. You can't show that you're actually liking something, because it's not
cool. It's like that in England and America, although things have changed a little bit in America. When we go on tour
and play in places, we sell out places, and people are jumping around a little more, getting a little crazier. In
England they're very polite, just like the English would be. In Scotland they're a little more crazy. So I guess it's
the national personality really. In England they're polite, they clap, and that's about it, but then when they're
drunk they come up and tell you [adopts rough English accent]: "Fuckin' mate, that was fuckin' amazin'!""
Or they'll tell you if you're shit.
"We haven't had that yet, so we've been lucky. I was waiting for that. I thought we might get that in the press
or at live shows, but not at all... We get fan mail from England, so I guess we did all right. Live, we just kind of
rock. We just get up there and sweat."
Is your live sound different than on the album?
"Entirely. They're the pop songs, but when you leave a country like America you can only bring six guys over.
There's only so much you can do to replicate it, so you kind of cheat with keyboards and samplers. You can't even
bring all of that over, because you can't bring it on the plane or it's going to get broken. You just take your
guitars, and it becomes more of a punk rock experience. It's orch punk rock - orchestral. Orch punk is what we do for
live shows. I kind of like that. In England, when we first came over, they would say: "Oh, I can't wait to see how
you do it." I thought it would be boring if we just did what we do. Replicating a record - who fucking cares,
you know?"
What about the age of the songs... Do you still enjoy playing that stuff?
"No, not really. I enjoy playing live, because I like to see people's reactions. We go up there, and we're
very down-to-earth, and people can come up on stage. They can sing every song if they want. It's just very crazy.
This tour will probably be the last time we'll ever be like we are now. These three dates we do over here will be
the last time we go up there and I just throw maracas out into the audience and say "play them. Who wants to play?"
It's very punk rock and sweaty. After that, we'll probably be more like the Flaming Lips, taking video screens out,
like we do when we're at home. We'll have more musicians or use samplers, and we'll have sound people. Back home,
we put on more of a show and spectacle. We have screens and more musicians, baby grand pianos, horns... We just
bring the stuff over from the house, and people show up."
How comfortable do you feel being associated with the collective Elephant 6 [60s-era psychedelic-tinged scene based
in and around Athens, Georgia] sound?
"There are good and bad things to everything. I like a lot of Elephant 6 stuff. One of my favourite records
of the last decade was Neutral Milk Hotel's 'In the Aeroplane Over the Sea'. There are good and bad things.
The good thing is that there's already a built-in indie scene. That kind of helps us out, if people like it,
although you also get pigeonholed, and you get unfair expectations put on you, like you should be psychedelic... We're
not psychedelic. We're a little different, and I think we're one of the more different bands, in that we're not as
crazy or don't try to be crazy. We're as influenced by other bands outside of the circle like Wilco as we are by
bands inside of it like Olivia Tremor Control. There are people who automatically won't like you because they've
had a backlash, and they know they're not going to like that. We've gone on tour with bands that are not very
Elephant 6 at all... Luna, Wilco, Guided by Voices, Gomez, Superchunk. We've played shows with the Radar Bros. We've
played with so many bands, and I think that's the whole point. A lot of Elephant 6 bands continue to go out with
one another, like Olivias will take Elf Power out again. I think that's fine. It's just that I want to be exposed
to different people. I don't want to keep playing to the same folks. Out of all of the records we've sold, I wonder
maybe if 3000 or so are hardcore Elephant 6 fans. I can't imagine that there are more than that in the States."
In every piece written about you, there are references to the Beach Boys and Beatles. Doesn't that start getting
on your nerves?
"It drives me nuts after a while. I think it's an easy one. I don't think we sound as much like that. I don't
think we sound as much like the Beach Boys as everyone wants us to. You put sleigh bells on a track, and suddenly
you're the Beach Boys. I like sleigh bells, they're just kind of a nice-sounding thing. The Beach Boys did them,
and there's been a long lapse - besides Christmas records - of sleigh bells. I've read the comparisons so many
times. At first I was happy, because they're two of the best bands ever. Like anybody, you want to be recognized
for what you do or at least be recognized for the thievery that you do. It's not just one musical house that you
rob - There are a whole bunch. In the same breath, the British were comparing us to Jesus and Mary Chain and Dexy's
Midnight Runners... It's odd. The other Elephant 6 bands get the Beatles and fucking Beach Boys comparisons all the
time, whereas we at least have been compared to Weezer, Velvet Underground, Pavement, Stereolab even. It's true,
because we use keyboards sometimes very much like Stereolab. At least we're not just compared with one or two bands.
The British really wanted the Beach Boys thing, because they wanted to play up the angle of the California stuff."
That's more the High Llamas angle though, isn't it?
"It's funny that they never mention the High Llamas, although that's kind of good, because I don't think we
sound like that at all. The High Llamas - Now they sound like the Beach Boys! He doesn't sing like a Beach Boy -
not even close. He can't even pull it off, and they don't do harmonies anywhere near the Beach Boys, which is the
Beach Boys' trademark. They couldn't do it, because he can't sing anywhere like that. The use of instrumentation is
remarkably trying to be 'Pet Sounds'."
I always think that's an easy cop-out for journalists, when their first question is "Who are your influences?"
"It's funny, because recently I read a review somewhere, and someone said: "Let's just get this out of the way
now. Beulah sounds like a lot of bands. Here's the list so far that I've found..." Then he wrote next to certain
bands certain things like: "I don't get that one", and it went down the list, and it was just crazy. In the end though,
he said: "That's the whole point. You can't pin them down in a certain way." That made me happy, because it means that
on our next record we can do what we want. Noone's going to say: "You're supposed to sound like this, and you don't."
It's the two-record-minimum as well. People said that Pavement were the Pixies and the Fall for the first couple of
records, and then that changed. The Replacements were REM... After a while, they'll find something else to say.
Everybody sounds like somebody else for their first records."
Do you really care? If someone writes an article, and you can tell that they haven't really listened to the record.
You've invested a lot of time, work, and emotions into something...
"I encourage all criticism - good or bad. As long as it's true. There's always going to be valid criticism.
After I read all the reviews about the record - maybe 100 - and I take the percentage of bad ones, that's maybe
five out of 100. Some of them have been really scathing. Those bother me, but only when they're not true. One I
remember in particular - See, it's funny, because I'll never forget it - was talking about the stupidity of the
lyrics. Frankly, you could call the lyrics esoteric, you could call them self-worshipping. You could just say they're
one big inside joke - fair enough. But stupid? Please! The thing is, the lyrics aren't stupid in any means.
If I had written some fucking fluffy, laughable love thing about nonsense, sure..."
Do they back their criticism up?
"No, not at all. He'd said that the narration in one of the songs, 'Ballad of the Lonely Argonaut', was bad.
I thought that was funny, because actually I like that one. That whole song's about San Francisco. I like it, because
I took pieces of everything that's ever been written about San Francisco in its history, and I put it all in one song.
Instead of me writing an inane poem about how or why I love this city, I just took everything from Hart Crane to Mark
Twain to short stories, and I piled it all into one thing about San Francisco. He didn't even know it was about
San Francisco. "'Cool gray ladies, bla bla bla...' What does that mean?" See, he didn't even get it. "The cool gray lady"
is what San Francisco is called. So... Whatever. Those bother me. The other thing is that I don't think anyone could
ever really hate that record. There's nothing to hate, so when someone goes "Fuck it, I hate this!", there's
usually something else. This guy just wanted another paragraph to write how much he hated Elephant 6. If someone's
ambivalent, I can handle that. "Um, whatever, it's OK." - Fair enough. That I can see, but the hatred thing...
Then I think there's something odd. I think people can love it, or they can either be here or there about it -
nonplused about the whole thing, "Fuck it, it's just a record.""
Exactly, it makes you think there's something deeper within them, that makes them want to go off and rant.
"Yeah, take a Captain Beefheart record. There, you either love it or hate it. You can't be ambivalent about a
Captain Beefheart record. 'Metal Machine Music' by Lou Reed - You have to love it or hate it. You can't be ambivalent
about it. It's impossible. With our record, you can be ambivalent or you love it, but I don't know if you can hate it.
I almost feel that way about the Beatles. How can you hate a Beatles record? You can go: "Ah, the Beatles, yeah,
whatever...""
How do you write a song? Are you able to write on the road as well?
"No, I've never written a song on the road. That's probably why I haven't written any songs in a long time. I've
been away from home for so long."
Do you write the lyrics first?
"No, I always write the lyrics last. I always write the music first, and I always have the melody ready, and I
'mumble-sing' for about a good six months when I'm writing songs. Mumble... Mblabladebla. Then I just come up with
the lyrics later and just put them on. Sometimes, two days before i write a song, I'll just think of a subject matter
and go through everything in my mind intensely. It's like when I was in college and wrote papers. I like the pressure."
But you don't have that looming deadline, keeping yourself going with high doses of caffeine...
"Well, you know, I've had ones where I'm still writing as somebody's setting up the tape."
I think Dylan did that.
"Yeah, I think it's a pressure situation, and I wrote better college papers when I did that. If I spent too
much time on a paper, it just got fat and lazy."
Do you ever find yourself coming out with some crazy shit at times like that?
"Oh yeah, totally. Serendipitous moments. Just those happy mistakes that music should be. Sometimes you shouldn't
think about things for too long. [laughs] Other times, someone will argue that you should think about things a little
longer too. It depends how you work. Everybody just works differently. Some people write lyrics all of the time...
I piece stuff together and work on it for ages. I'm not the sort of person who writes an entire song - verse, chorus -
in one take. I've done that a couple of times, but usually I come up with a great verse or a great chorus, and then
I have to work on it later, maybe a month down the road. I have a notebook with parts in it, and I go back later and
see if they all work. Like Frankenstein - I sew them together."
How do you achieve the well-rounded sound on your records with such a lo-fi budget?
"You know, I really don't know! I think it's a lot of luck. We don't have good equipment. None of us are
engineers, none of us really know what we're doing. Honest to God! I guess the main thing is to run the tape as
fast as it can go and make sure that you record things as hot as possible. Always keep your EQ levels straight up.
Worry about EQ when you mix. That's the key, I think."
What was it like recording strings, since you're not professionals?
"No, we just stuck the mic up in a room over them and said: "Go!" We'd record it once and say: "Oo, we're
getting too much violin", nothing that's brain surgery, obviously... "OK, move it away from the violin. Too much
cello. Move it over this way." That was about it. As far as how to get a good string sound - We had no clue.
I thought: "Screw it. We'll just get what we get." It's just there, and it sounds like strings. We just threw that
damn stuff up there and said: "Record." Very punk rock. We try to make this thing sound much more than a rough
recording, but our approach is very punk rock."
What does the future hold for Beulah? Do you have any surprises up your sleeve for us?
"It'll be different. The new record will be bigger, fuller, more complex. There'll be different styles on
there that we've never done before... soul, country mixed in. It'll be better, because I don't think we challenged
ourselves as much as we could have."
Are you hard on yourself?
"Oh, very much so. I listen to our last record ['When Your Heartstrings Break'], and I know that we didn't do
the best that we could do. I didn't write the best songs that I could write. I know I didn't. I listen to new ones,
and i think: "OK, I'm getting there, where I can make more of a statement." I listen to the harmonies, and I think
that those are weak. We didn't really do great harmonies."
I guess it's a good attitude to have, otherwise you just get lazy.
"Yeah, and you know - that's the thing. You also have to know when you've done your best work, so you can call
it a day. Lou Reed should've called it a day years ago. No matter how much you love Neil Young, I still think he
should've called it a day. I know some people find that blasphemous, but it's the truth. All musicians must be put
out to pasture. They peak, and unfortunately most artists don't know when they peak. A lot of artists did...
the Velvet Underground, the Beatles are a perfect example. Thank God they never made a record in the 70s! I don't
foresee making more than a few more records really, because I think that I could maybe peak on the next one. I'd
maybe do a good one after that, but I don't want to keep doing it just because I don't know what I'd do afterwards."
No more rock'n'roll lifestyle then?
"That's the funny thing about being in this position, now that the band's doing well and meeting people. I meet
all sorts of people who were heroes of mine at one time. I met Bob Pollard [Guided by Voices], and I hung out with
Bob and went on tour with Bob. He's just 'Bob'. I didn't ask him one thing about making music, because I don't care
anymore. I'm more curious as to: "What are you doing? What are you going to go eat today?" I think if I met Paul
McCartney I'd be a little different, but then I'd just bore the hell out of him, because I'd just be asking him stuff
about the Beatles. He'd be like: "Here we go again.""
I hate over-analyzing music, asking all sorts of nosy questions. I don't want to ask about a certain line. It could
be something really personal to the guy...
"Yeah, exactly. Analyzing music is hard, because it's just this moment caught on tape. It either affects you or
it doesn't. Music should, in some way, be romantic. At least the making of music... The fact is that it isn't. It's
very much like touring and going to play shows. People think: "Wow, you're playing a Peel Session [legendary BBC radio
programme] on Thursday night! That's so cool!" Well, not really. I'll be in a room the size of a shoe box backstage,
and there'll be a small table with bananas, oranges, chips, and beer, a stack of towels... The seats will probably
have holes in them, bands' graffiti will be all over the walls, and it will smell funny! So people come backstage
for the first time, and they go [disgusted]: "Oh!" And you're like: "Yes, thank you, this is what we do." So it's
best sometimes that people never come backstage and that they never learn how your songs are made. It's all smoke
and mirrors, a big fucking act. I'm sure it wasn't that romantic at Abbey Road making a record, and maybe it's not -
well, hmm, [laughs] OK, maybe it is that romantic - backstage at a KISS show!"
http://www.kindamuzik.net/interview/beulah/beulah/356/
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