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This is the third time you are in Europe this year, and you are coming back for some summer festivals as well . . . how come? Is it so much fun here?
Conrad: "Yeah, I mean it is hard to say 'no' to a European vacation. We really like the way the crowd responds out here. It is very enthusiastic, and we like to travel. I don't think we have seen all of Europe that we want to see. This will be the first time in Italy, Spain, and I want to go to Eastern Europe: We haven't even been to the Czech Republic. We are all fans of history and art history, so being here is also a great excuse to see all the museums. It is just that the lifestyle here is different from the average American . . . you get bored of America. It's not just playing there, it is also the homogeneousness of America. America can be very much the same. Over here you can go next door and see France or Germany, and you'll be in a completely different atmosphere."
Jason: "What I noticed about Amsterdam when I walked around was that I saw a lot of Americans. It is really too touristy there. That was why I liked Rotterdam or Groningen, where we played the last tour, and those towns have a safe feeling too. Amsterdam feels like it could be a little more on the edge sometimes. I mostly felt safe here until last night. We were walking outside and some guys tried to hassle us, but we just walked away. They didn't do anything, but I guess that is what happens when there is drug and drinks involved . . . "
The latest record, Source Tags and Codes, was your first record to be released on a major label. Does being on a label like Interscope/Universal make it easier for you to take trips to Europe?
Conrad: "No, it was easy before as well. When we got on Interscope, we had to tell them that they had to respect the fact that we consider Europe an important place to be, and I think they were surprised because most American bands do not see it that way."
Jason: "They don't necessarily like to come over here. They are like . . . where's my MacDonald's? They have a sort of aversion to broadening their horizons; they are so stuck in that American mindset."
Conrad: "But it is not really more expensive to tour here; it pays for itself basically. Okay, It does cost more in a sense, but it balances out by the experiences that you have."
Jason: "I think if our tours over here were not so well received, we wouldn't have come back. But ever since the beginning it has been great, especially in the UK. We always have fun in Europe."
You are known for your energetic stage shows. Almost every night instruments fly around, and you often get hurt yourselves as well. Do you ever fear that people will only come to see you smash up your guitars or drum kit instead of for the music?
Conrad: "No . . . I think that people who have our record definitely come to hear the songs and hear the music. We have had criticisms from people who have seen lots and lots of shows that they don't even like it anymore when we break stuff; they just want to hear the music. Most people just like to hear us play it well, and of course, they do enjoy it when it goes crazy, but that is not why they come. People that hear our records like us for the records as well."
Jason: "Those things on stage just happen. We played a 30-minute radio show last time we were in Amsterdam, and the ending was so loud, there was so much noise. That is just what happens when you put people in front of us; it makes us feed off that. And sometimes we get sort of obnoxious. Before the radio show, I thought, 'These guys are probably really stoned. Let's see how much we can fuck with them.' But I don't think anybody was really stoned at all, ha-ha-ha. There are probably more stoned tourists than Dutch people in Amsterdam. I was just being an ass . . . "
Conrad: "Right now, our shows are still a basic rock set-up: There are no cheap thrills, we are not using explosives, lights, or costumes. It is not opera; it is rock and roll. Just four guys onstage playing their instruments as energetically as possible. I don't think there is anything really different from what we do to what The Who or Rolling Stones did 40 years ago. But if we were in a certain-size venue, I am sure we are going to come up with a certain way of lighting or something. Neil [Neil Busch, bass player] once suggested that I paint this big classical painting on this canvas, a large canvas, so that it would look like we were playing inside a museum. For the thing is: The bigger the show, the smaller the band gets, and then it can be nice to have something visually more stimulating."
Jason: "Maybe we could come down in this big spaceship, with a huge TV on it, and in the end put on jetpacks . . . "
You just brought up the idea of bringing a painting on stage and you are really involved with your CD's artwork: making it, and doing the art direction. How important is that in the TOD experience?
Conrad: "I think it is very important. We have always taken the artwork for a record as serious as the music, and I think it is. And the lyrics too. I think the great thing about music is that it is multidimensional. You have all the art forms represented: visual, literary, and music. It is all in one and I think they are all equally important too."
Jason: "But if we're going to do things like that onstage, it would be a natural progression; I don't think we are going to jump into it. And it has always been like that with us. We always sort of evolved, but not in a way that you lose touch with your original sound."
You publish your music under the name "Don't Steal Our Music." How do you feel about the effect the Internet has had on the music industry?
Conrad: "We have always been supportive of that. Because I use the net, I used Napster. I use it to research things, songs, and I don't think the Internet is going to ruin corporate rock music. People are still going to go out and buy those records. In fact, we got plenty responses from people who have heard us for the first time this way and went out and bought the record. So, rather than being against it, I am supportive of file sharing."
Jason: " 'Don't steal our music' was kind of a joke. Who is going to steal our music and copy our songs? I do not expect there to be someone out there who takes our song and makes a hit out of it, but you never know. And about the Internet: It is too late to be afraid."
Conrad: "We have used the Internet to our advantage, more than anything else. For us, it is just a way for people to get to know our music. We went down to Brazil, and we had all these kids come up and ask us to sign bootleg copies of our record. They just downloaded the music and artwork. I was totally happy, because, otherwise, they would never have heard our music or come to the shows. The record is not in the record stores there so . . . "
Is that why you put your songs on MP3.com?
Conrad: "Yeah, but they took those off; I don't know why."
Maybe because MP3.com was bought by Universal?
Conrad: "What? Ha-ha-ha! Great, I went to look for our MP3.com site, and all our MP3s were gone. Fucking bastards! Well, they don't own any of those songs anyway. We own both our first two records. They only own Source Tags, and even that, we have retained publishing rights too. We're not selling that."
Why are you so involved with your website? Most bands let the record company deal with that. Especially when things get busy.
Conrad: "We have always done that. We started our website five, six years ago when not so many bands had websites, and I learned how to code early on and wanted to be able to control the look and the feel to it, so there was never any reason not to. Now as we get busier and busier, it helps to have people at Interscope; they'll update it for me and put up new links and stuff like that, and work on different things. But we always maintain complete control of how we want to be represented."
Source Tags And Codes got a lot of media attention, and things have been getting busier for you lately. Where is the Trail Of Dead leading to?
Conrad: "I am worried about the future of Trail Of Dead as much as I am worried about the future of this planet, so as long as things stick around we'll be around too. But, I don't like to dwell upon such negative things as the state of the world. I'd rather write about things we are experiencing right now, that other people might not get the opportunity to experience. We can articulate what it is like to be travelling around and seeing these places. I think a lot of people, when they hear us writing about those things, they really appreciate it. Because they never get to, you know . . . most people don't travel. Most people don't get to see the world the way we get to."
Jason: "And as for our music: I don't think we have come close to our highest achievement. Even our last record seems to me like a stepping stone towards that thing we're still working on: the idea of a perfect album. And we want to keep progressing. We are already working on the next record. We want to start recording that pretty soon."
How importing is becoming well known in this?
Conrad: "We have nothing against people liking what we do; in fact, I love that! It is great to reach a lot of people. I don't think we try to be arrogant about our music and say, oh we only want smart people to listen to it, or those who are college educated. It is noting like that. Art, in its truest form, ought to be able to appeal to everybody: common people as well as the others."
Jason: "It one of those things: You want your music to be in everybody's collection, as a classic. Like an early U2 record."
Conrad: "Or the bible — everybody has got one."
Jason: "Or 'Gone With The Wind' and 'Apocalypse Now.' "
One final question: Jason, I read that you were working on a screenplay?
Jason: "I got bought out. I was flirting with the idea, researching 'Keith-Man' [Keith Moon of The Who]. I guess I wanted to do a rock biopic, but do it really fun, more a sixties-like period film. But this production company already had it going on, and bought the rights to it. The actor I wanted to use is even in it as Keith Moon, so I was like, fuck . . . that scrapped. But I have no other plans, I don't have a muse at the moment. Keith Moon was the fuel for the fire."
Conrad: "We should at least contact them and try to cast you for a part . . . maybe Roger Daltry or something."
Jason: "Maybe we could do the music for it. That is a good idea . . . that would be awesome."
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Meer ... And You Will Know Us by the Trail of Dead op KindaMuzik: http://www.kindamuzik.net/artiest/and-you-will-know-us-by-the-trail-of-dead
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